Discipline in class

[pakalikaPakalika]

I just got done with my first period class. I had to walk out of the class early because one of the boys in the class decide to roll a paper up and shoot it at the back of my head with a rubber band when I wasn't looking. That set me off right there. I started yelling at all of them. The JTE in this class has no control over them at all. They mock him and do not listen to him. I think a lot of it has to do with the way he talks to them and also the fact that he can not speak English at all. I think the students, like me, look at him and say what are you doing teaching English, when you can barely speak it. I don't know what to do with this class. What are some suggestions? what would you do?

[jeisensei]

Every situation is different because every group of students is different, but you could try letting that class know that you will refuse to play any games with them until they get their act together. "All grammar all the time" type of thing. In my experience that works well. Even the most hardened class asks me to come back within a few weeks and they are on best behavior for a while. When it starts to go down hill again (which is always will...that's entropy for you) just do the same thing.

[Otaku]

JHS? Which grade?

If you have a lamearse JTE, why not take matters into your own hands and assist the student to the principal's room and let him/her yell at the student for awhile?

Don't know about the yelling part, but leaving the classroom was a smart move. That's the classic passive-aggressive way to get the students feeling bad.

And, if you don't decide to remove the student, at least tell the kyoto or kocho what happened. Somebody is liable to do something. However, everything really comes down to the teacher you're teaching with. Principal or vice can yell all they want, but classroom control is paramount.

Yeah, you'll get people saying an ALT shouldn't have anything to do with classroom punishment, but I think 'assisting' a horrible classroom control JTE is perfectly acceptable.

Another approach to this problem is encouragement instead of discipline. Ignoring the problem but building up a student's self-esteem when they do something good can go a long ways. I honestly believe students aren't really bad at this age, simply need to get corraled into a positive learning environment. Of course, creating this type of environment is sometimes difficult when you don't have the assistence of that second teacher.

[pakalikaPakalika]

JHS? Which grade?

If you have a lamearse JTE, why not take matters into your own hands and assist the student to the principal's room and let him/her yell at the student for awhile?

Don't know about the yelling part, but leaving the classroom was a smart move. That's the classic passive-aggressive way to get the students feeling bad.

And, if you don't decide to remove the student, at least tell the kyoto or kocho what happened. Somebody is liable to do something. However, everything really comes down to the teacher you're teaching with. Principal or vice can yell all they want, but classroom control is paramount.

Yeah, you'll get people saying an ALT shouldn't have anything to do with classroom punishment, but I think 'assisting' a horrible classroom control JTE is perfectly acceptable.

Another approach to this problem is encouragement instead of discipline. Ignoring the problem but building up a student's self-esteem when they do something good can go a long ways. I honestly believe students aren't really bad at this age, simply need to get corraled into a positive learning environment. Of course, creating this type of environment is sometimes difficult when you don't have the assistence of that second teacher.

It is in a JHS. Sorry left that out. I did talk to the HRT of that class and the Kyoto sensei. Now what gets done after that I dod not know. Al the HRT and the JTE could say to me was sorry sorry. I think there next class I am going to do sit down and write what page I am teaching like 10 times. No one talking. when they want to know the meaning of a word they can ask me.

[Paul]

Before I get started did you get hit with the paper or not?

There are any number of responses that could fit this situation but each depends upon how you want to deal with it. The carrot and stick approach works well as jei suggested yet for the actions of that one boy who shot the paper at you a different approach might be necessary.

Pick your battles wisely here, just getting angry with no followup may not always be the best approach, and I would from my own experience leave the principal out of it until you go through the chain of command. HR teacher, club teacher, grade supervisor teacher, Department head teacher, then Kyoto, and lastly Kyoto. Cover your butt as well and let your BOE if you work for one, know the situation as well. You don't want crap coming back at you too. Get your ducks in a line and then go to war. (At least that's what I would do!)

[pakalikaPakalika]

Before I get started did you get hit with the paper or not?

There are any number of responses that could fit this situation but each depends upon how you want to deal with it. The carrot and stick approach works well as jei suggested yet for the actions of that one boy who shot the paper at you a different approach might be necessary.

Pick your battles wisely here, just getting angry with no followup may not always be the best approach, and I would from my own experience leave the principal out of it until you go through the chain of command. HR teacher, club teacher, grade supervisor teacher, Department head teacher, then Kyoto, and lastly Kyoto. Cover your butt as well and let your BOE if you work for one, know the situation as well. You don't want crap coming back at you too. Get your ducks in a line and then go to war. (At least that's what I would do!)

Yes I did get hit with the paper, but I do not know who did it. So I am holding the whole class responsible for one person actions. They will write what ever page I am teaching like 10 times. I don't think I need to let my company know because there is nothing they can do. It just comes back to what the HRT and JTE can do. I will let the class know that since they do not want to enjoy a regular class, with activities. we will just be writing are text book until we know how to listen.

[Paul]

Before I get started did you get hit with the paper or not?

There are any number of responses that could fit this situation but each depends upon how you want to deal with it. The carrot and stick approach works well as jei suggested yet for the actions of that one boy who shot the paper at you a different approach might be necessary.

Pick your battles wisely here, just getting angry with no followup may not always be the best approach, and I would from my own experience leave the principal out of it until you go through the chain of command. HR teacher, club teacher, grade supervisor teacher, Department head teacher, then Kyoto, and lastly Kyoto. Cover your butt as well and let your BOE if you work for one, know the situation as well. You don't want crap coming back at you too. Get your ducks in a line and then go to war. (At least that's what I would do!)

Yes I did get hit with the paper, but I do not know who did it. So I am holding the whole class responsible for one person actions. They will write what ever page I am teaching like 10 times. I don't think I need to let my company know because there is nothing they can do. It just comes back to what the HRT and JTE can do. I will let the class know that since they do not want to enjoy a regular class, with activities. we will just be writing are text book until we know how to listen.

I would suggest getting to the bottom of this today and don't wait. Get the HR teacher involved before or during lunch time and have him or her ask the class directly who was responsible. Hopefully they can get the person who did it to admit to it without further action being taken out on the class. Get the seito shidou teacher involved too, if the kid doesnt own up to it on their own, get the HR teacher to hold them all after school until the culprit admits to their actions. Usually if the hr teacher's threaten this type of action the culprit will own up to it as the other kids know who is guilty.

More later...just got a phone call.

[jeisensei]

I don't know if a witch hunt in which everyone learns who did it (or some other kid is put in the position where they have to tell on the kid that did it) is really the way to handle this sort of thing. But that is just IMHO, ne?

[Paul]

This is usually how Japanese JHS's handle discipline problems when the culprit is unknown, either this or conducting an anketto, or survey, within the class first, anonymously of course, to ask if anyone had any knowledge of the act, and if so who was guilty. Either way they get flushed out eventually.

The kids in class KNOW who did it, at least those around the culprit know and by taking this course sends a few messages to the kids that behavior like this will not be tolerated. This kid needs a good scolding about respect for their teachers and having their parents called in as well reinforces the message. It may not seem like something major to some people here but it really is and should be dealt with promptly, if not it will potentially get worse.

The school has a responsibility to protect it's teachers, today its a paper ball, tomorrow, who knows what. This particular class seems to have a bunch of problem children in it, and one thing is don't go to that class, boycott it if necessary, you have that right if there is such a problem that the school and teachers don't take action. The JTE in question as well has got to learn to take responsibility and do their job as well.

Keep this in mind too please, the mind set here is "Praise the group and punish the individual". It really isn't smart to make the entire class pay for the stupid headed move by one individual even though the entire class may be rowdy.

[jp_headonJohn]

Before I get started did you get hit with the paper or not?

There are any number of responses that could fit this situation but each depends upon how you want to deal with it. The carrot and stick approach works well as jei suggested yet for the actions of that one boy who shot the paper at you a different approach might be necessary.

Pick your battles wisely here, just getting angry with no followup may not always be the best approach, and I would from my own experience leave the principal out of it until you go through the chain of command. HR teacher, club teacher, grade supervisor teacher, Department head teacher, then Kyoto, and lastly Kyoto. Cover your butt as well and let your BOE if you work for one, know the situation as well. You don't want crap coming back at you too. Get your ducks in a line and then go to war. (At least that's what I would do!)

Yes I did get hit with the paper, but I do not know who did it. So I am holding the whole class responsible for one person actions. They will write what ever page I am teaching like 10 times. I don't think I need to let my company know because there is nothing they can do. It just comes back to what the HRT and JTE can do. I will let the class know that since they do not want to enjoy a regular class, with activities. we will just be writing are text book until we know how to listen.

Pushiments are meant to be a bad experience right? Bad experiences sometimes don't make the situation better. If you make the students write out the textbook page you are teaching 10 times, you are sending the message that writing in English or writing anything, is something not nice to do. As writing is apart of the English language aswell as reading speaking and listening, motivating the students in all these areas would be of more use than using any of these areas as punishment. I wouldn't punish the whole class either think about this, would you have more or less respect for your boss if they told you you were going to get a pay cut because another teacher did something wrong, but they don't know who, so all teachers will suffer? My guess is a lot less respect! I would go down the path of the questionaire mentioned or make some fun english lesson or game where the students need to ask each other questions to find who the paper flicking student of you school is. I would also let the student know that if they come forward and say sorry (in private if they want) nothing more will come of it this time but this time only. IMHO you will earn respect (maybe not from all but from some) and set out what you expect of the students in future classes.

[Paul]

jp I agree, making them do anything English related, particularly in a class where English is not appreciated in the first place, as a so called punishment, will possibly make the students hate English even more so than they do already. It's hard enough as well all well know to get kids here to feel good about learning English without having it used as a threat or punishment.

[hokkaido1]

You are in a very difficult situation and not a lot of options (ALTs role and power is limited)

This reminds me of one similar problem I had with a 6grade (ES class). Your situation is certainly worse but, this is what happened to me.

This one class really hassled me all lesson and it really hacked me off. And what is more, it clearly showed. This sort of gave them a kick (just one bunch of boys really)

I wasn't looking forward to the next lesson and when it came, I decided to just totally ignore them and after 20 mins or so they stopped and I never had any problem with them again
Looking back they just got a kick out of pushing my button (in various ways) .....
yes, they weren't doing what they are doing to you. But all said and done you can't do a lot, you don't have the authority.
If you can, try to ignore it or at least let it seem that you are not
Yes, go to the school heads if its too much, you should be in this situation

[jeisensei]

The same thing that happened to hokkaido happened to me in a bunch of schools (every school has its bad seeds). And I did the same thing. As soon as I ignored the students for a little while and they knew that my switches were well away from their reach they will stop acting like morons for the most part. It is an effective way to deal with most situations like that. Though I usually follow that up with going to the students after class and ask them if they know the reason why I was ignoring them and that really helped to drive the point home.

[azuhlLt.]

Every one of them does press-ups until they name the culprit, straight after lunch. Slow-down and quick-up. Anyone who stops will be picked for logging and will have to drag a heavy weight from one end of the field to another.

Either way, a thrown projectile is an assault, contact from a projectile is a battery, obviously extreme but there you go.

Exercise AND punishment combined...efficient.

[jeisensei]

Damn man. That would lead to a quick firing where I am working because it is a small town and at least one student in each class has someone on the town's main council. Plus, this is not the army. This is school. No need to do something like that for a bit of paper.

Edited to add the fact that I once worked in a "bad" school where I used to get chalk and chairs thrown at me all the time. Even at that time I wouldn't go that far to punish the kids because they are kids. (as a side note as soon as the grade that acted out graduated and moved on that school became my "good" school.)

[Paul]

(as a side note as soon as the grade that acted out graduated and moved on that school became my "good" school.)

I would add here that in my experiences in JHS this is quite a common. School's have there up and down years. Seems to me like there is no school that totally avoids it either. I also believe as well that the management of the school as well plays a huge part in how these issues are handled and how they affect the entire school.

I went through a 6 year period in one school that seemed like hell. The school in question was great, teacher's, kid's, staff, everyone and things went smoothly. Then only the principal changed and all hell broke loose. The principal was a stickler for classes, no shortened classes, pushed for 6 hours of classes everyday, took away the yearly sports day,and replaced it with something more along the lines of a ES undokai, wouldnt let kids out of classes to go participate in extracurricular events amongst a list of other changes that made the teachers and students rebel. He moved out after 4 years and then another butt-headed one came in and was even worse in the fact that he was never around, ignored people, called to check up on teachers and staff to ensure they were where they were supposed to be when going on business trips, (had this happen to me once too. I stopped at a conbini to get a snack and he complained that it took me too long to get back to school from the city office) all sorts of anal crap, and it affected the kids too.

Now the principal that came in last year was like dawn breaking after a typhoon, bright sunshine, laughter, and more laughter, the kids having fun, enjoying classes everything.

[jeisensei]

It's amazing the effect one teacher (no matter how high up in the chain of command) can have on the students and the rest of the teachers. At my last school it was the teacher that was in charge of making sure the students follow the rules who had that effect. He was just basically a terrible person and made the atmosphere in the teachers room very gloomy (which carries over to lessons) and was always yelling at students (which put them on edge and made them hard to teach.)

[azuhlLt.]

Damn man. That would lead to a quick firing where I am working because it is a small town and at least one student in each class has someone on the town's main council. Plus, this is not the army. This is school. No need to do something like that for a bit of paper.

Edited to add the fact that I once worked in a "bad" school where I used to get chalk and chairs thrown at me all the time. Even at that time I wouldn't go that far to punish the kids because they are kids. (as a side note as soon as the grade that acted out graduated and moved on that school became my "good" school.)

Can't spot a troll?

I'm well aware you can't physically punish students.

[Paul]

I'm well aware you can't physically punish students.

What?!?! I mean I've been taking the bad apples out behind the gym for some extracurricular lessons all these years without knowing that I can't? Damn man why didn't you tell me sooner!

In all seriousness now, I had a cop once tell me, take the kid out back, slap him around now, or eventually WE are going to have to deal with him later. We'll back you up if you are in the right! (I have seriously considered doing this on a number of occasions ever since that conversation)

[azuhlLt.]

I'm well aware you can't physically punish students.

What?!?! I mean I've been taking the bad apples out behind the gym for some extracurricular lessons all these years without knowing that I can't? Damn man why didn't you tell me sooner!

In all seriousness now, I had a cop once tell me, take the kid out back, slap him around now, or eventually WE are going to have to deal with him later. We'll back you up if you are in the right! (I have seriously considered doing this on a number of occasions ever since that conversation)

See...I'm aware of the fact

[jeisensei]

As a skeptic I don't believe in ghosts, UFOs or trolls :p