the DREADED COUNTRIES time...

[Otaku]

It's that time of the year where students are learning different country names.

It's been talked about before but does it irritate anyone else that the USA is changed to AMERICA, and there is no distinction between SOUTH and NORTH KOREA?

[moolooman]

It has always been my pet hate that the US is simply called America.

[jeisensei]

That time of the year already? I don't think I got to that until directly before summer vacation last year (in eigo note 1). Well, at least that timing gave me the whole summer to forget the whole US America thing. Last year I actually was going to teach North Korea and South Korea, but a lot of my teachers didn't want me to go there.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

I don't really see the harm. That country is known internationally by both names. You say America and everyone gets the idea. I see no real offence if you teach both.

[Otaku]

Big deal? There are two Koreas. There are two Americas.

Specificity over ambiguity. Correct vs. incorrect.

If you live in Japan long enough, it starts sounding correct, but I'd like to think it's rather incorrect.


BTW, I was referring to JHS English, not ES Eigo Noto.

[Paul]

I don't really see the harm. That country is known internationally by both names. You say America and everyone gets the idea. I see no real offence if you teach both.

The key is teaching both I agree, we call ourselves American, not USA'ns. Although to screw with some people's minds I on occasion say I am a USA jin, pronouncing the U as う and SA as さ

Reading this topic right now is kind of dejavu for me today, I had a discussion with a JTE who actually apologized to me today because of some of the rather ignorant things that Japanese people have said or talked to me about while I have been living here.

Up to that point it was cool, but when we started talking about country names, like North and South Korea, or America, she started feeling upset because she told me it's because she was never taught it so how should I "expect" that she should know. The textbooks had one thing written in them and because it was there it was what she was taught.
She acted as if because she was taught that way and it was written in the texts it was "correct". I told her as well that both need to be taught.

I told her that North Koreans HATE to be called Korean, I learned that one from a prior job in the telephone company, they are Chosen jin and not Konkoku jin. Even the news reports it as such as well.

Out of curiosity to those here that speak any other foreign language besides English or Japanese, what do you call NK in let's say Spanish or German?

[Paul]

Big deal? There are two Koreas. There are two Americas.

Specificity over ambiguity. Correct vs. incorrect.

If you live in Japan long enough, it starts sounding correct, but I'd like to think it's rather incorrect.

Maybe you've been here too long Otaku, there are in reality three America's.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

I am afraid the ambiguity for the Americas just isn't the same as it is for N. and S. Korea Otaku.

None would think you meant Canada if you say America.

But if you say Korea people would really have to guess which one you are talking about.

It's basically standing in as a short form of United States of America.

Edit: touche Paul, but again America doesn't invoke images of anything but U.S.A. Americas is very different though.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

I would also venture a guess that a huge portion of folks from anywhere but U.S.A like to use America for short, and probably more often than U.S.A, but that is just from experience with my fellow canucks and U.K folks I befriended here.

[Paul]

RB I agree about the image. And I also agree no one thinks about Canada or Mexico when discussing America. I think part of that stems from the lack/limited of education overall about the world outside of Japan.

[Otaku]

Wait wait wait...

@Paul, touche on the 3 Americas.

@RB, you say, "I would also venture a guess that a huge portion of folks from anywhere but U.S.A like to use America for short."

Uuumm, if you're going to use 'short' as an excuse to call THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 'America', then it seems to me "USA" or even "US" would win the 'short' vote. Desho?

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Simply put though, this country-calling shouldn't even be an issue. The students have too much to worry about when it comes to learning English, why not strive for specificity and all-around simplicity and call countries by their English names in English class? And not what is popular with other countries...

S. Korea, N. Korea, USA, UK, etc.

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BTW, I do confuse Canada with the USA: USA's attic.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

BTW, I do confuse Canada with the USA: USA's attic.

Har har!

Short or not it just rolls of the tongue! "The staes" "America" Take your pick.

I know what you mean about Japanese only knowing one way though, basically to me too they aren't speaking English when they bust out the katakana version of "America." It's their Japanese word for the U.S.

Like Nippon vs. Japan. Our job is to teach them the ENGLISH way to say it.


But anyway you try to justify non-use of America outside Japan will just fail. America in today's English = U.S.A You can't really separte them. Either or is correct. Historically or otherwise.

[Otaku]

But anyway you try to justify non-use of America outside Japan will just fail. America in today's English = U.S.A You can't really separte them. Either or is correct. Historically or otherwise.

Well, Wikipedia couldn't figure out what I meant when I typed "America" in its search box: proof.

Specificity, son! That's all I'm saying. Is that too much to ask?

[Paul]

he students have too much to worry about when it comes to learning English, why not strive for specificity and all-around simplicity and call countries by their English names in English class? And not what is popular with other countries...

S. Korea, N. Korea, USA, UK, etc.

It would be very bad politically speaking here for the kids to start referring to PDRK as NK.

[jessen100]

America usually refers to either:

The Americas
The United States of America

i dont see where you were going with the wikipedia thing...

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

Specificity, son!

That's where he is going!

0.0000001 of the population might ASSUME that one acually wants to talk about the AmericaS when they say America. We can't allow that.

[Otaku]

@RB, wise ass!

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

wise ass!

Haven't heard or used that since the era of Road Trip (the movie) when Tom Green burns that kid during the university scene. Funny stuff.

Tom Green whatever happend to him? I feel the same fate awaits Zach Galifanananananaikis.

[Otaku]

Dude, Tom Green was never an actor. Let Road Trip die where it was buried! Actually, that movie wasn't half bad.

Now, his ex-wife, what the hell did she ever see in him?

BTW, what would you use instead of 'wise ass'? MEXTtard?

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

"wise guy" (complete with the Joe Pesci accent)

[jessen100]

dont forget the music video.

[moolooman]

I won`t have anyone saying a bad thing about Road Trip. I was working as a manager a hotel in China when that movie came out. My mate and I watched that and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back everyday while drinking Heineken and making a pyramid of Heineken cans in his apartment that numbered about 850 cans.

I stopped watching Tom Green when I saw him masturbating a cow in Freddie got Fingered.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

I won`t have anyone saying a bad thing about Road Trip.

Amen. Have the dvd here in J-land!