order in the classroom (ES)

[jessen100]

i have this 5th grade class and it takes forever to get them quiet which slows down the pace of the lessons significantly. there are two obvious reasons.

The HRT- He rarely participates at all in class, which im fine with, but i think it would be better for some things, because i think he could explain some stuff better BUT it seems like every class he will just sit there talking to a student or two while im trying to teach class. WTF....?

special needs student.. theres this kid who has some sort of developmental and perhaps emotional disorder. he can normally say the things we do, but clearly lacks comprehension of the material, and is incredibly disruptive top the other students. he almost never quiets down when its time to listen, and does random loud shit all the time. if i say something, he will just ignore me, and today while trying to talk about what we were going to do for the lesson he just got up and started sharpening his pencil with the very loud shapener. this really irritated me.

I think most of them participate in the speaking activities enthusiastically, sometimes too much. (its hard to tell since i cant hear them all) but they show improvement afterwards so i think most of them do it well.

I do what methods i can, and dont start speaking until they are completely quiet anymore, since they dont quiet down if i start, but if anyone has any suggestions on how i could improve upon managing them i would appreciate it.

(this thread is mostly just an excuse for me to whine)

[jeisensei]

I had a class like that before. What I did was play a sort of game with them. You know the tune to the ditty "Shave and a haircut"? What I did was one day when the class was going off rails I sat everyone down and taught them the song by clapping. They all clapped along and learned the song. After that I told them I will give them a pop quiz at various times throughout the year. I told them I would clap out the first part and when I do they have to sit down where they were and clap out the second part without saying anything and depending on the number of times it took before everyone was able to do it without saying anything after I would give them a pass or fail. After that every time the class was getting out of hand I would clap out the first part and they would sit down fast and clap out the second and all was right with the world.

Now, I don't know if that would actually work with your class but it might be worth a little try. Guudo raaku!

[Otaku]

You could implement a 'batsu-type' countdown system into the class. You wouldn't even need to explain what you're doing. The kids will pick up on it pretty quick.

Simply draw a square on the side of the chalkboard and write "10." Below the box, write "0 = batsu!" Everytime the class gets out of control, erase and write the next number closer to '0'.

What you'll most likely find is as the number gets closer to 0, you will have students helping you to get their friends to shutup and behave. And most important, reward the class too by tacking on numbers when they do something positive.

If by some chance the number ever reaches 0, be creative but not too strict with the 'batsu' you hand out. It could be something as simple as bringing the entire class to a complete standstill for 5 minutes. Something like having the class remove everything from their desk tops and putting their hands on the tops for 5 minutes. This is hella torturous for the kids cuz they are like neutrons, they need to be in constant state of movement.

Honestly, whenever I've implemented this idea in ES, I've never got the number down to 0. The students checked themselves before then. Also, I never tell the students what the punishment was because their THOUGHTS about what the punishment is will be way worse than the actual thing. Kinda a mindMEXT thing...

[himitsu]

Do the sit on the floor? For such classes chairs help a bit. Or try a countdown (that's what many jp teachers do), if someone is still talking, say "out" or slap him on the head lightly.

edit: oh, otaku was faster

[jp_headonJohn]

Hi Jessen100

Take a look at this you tube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Ye368aQVk&feature=related from Sir Ken Robinsion around the 5 minute mark there is an interesting story. This may help you in dealing with the student in this class. He also has some other very interesting videos on you tube.

I think as teachers we need to adapt to the class, not make the class adapt to us.

[jessen100]

I think as teachers we need to adapt to the class, not make the class adapt to us.

ill meet them halfway. they DO need to behave.

thx for all your suggestions and the vid that ill watch when i get home.

[Paul]

I think as teachers we need to adapt to the class, not make the class adapt to us.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you to a point here. Teacher's run the classroom not the students. I agree that the teacher has to adapt their lessons to the level of the class or how much any given class will participate, but beyond that it is the students who are obligated to adapt to the teacher as I see it.

A part of their education is also learning to adapt and learn from different teachers as well.

[azuhlLt.]

I think as teachers we need to adapt to the class, not make the class adapt to us.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you to a point here. Teacher's run the classroom not the students. I agree that the teacher has to adapt their lessons to the level of the class or how much any given class will participate, but beyond that it is the students who are obligated to adapt to the teacher as I see it.

A part of their education is also learning to adapt and learn from different teachers as well.

I support Paul's statement. I may only teach three grades at a JHS, but that's a fair-few students, if I were to 'adapt' to each of their classes, on a class-mood basis, I might as well have multiple-personality syndrome. Each class is very hit-and-miss, I understand the ability to adapt ad-hoc or on-the-fly and I deem it an essential ability, but disagree that we should change our teaching style to completely suit the class. If they are a class who like to mess about, I'll give them a sliding scale. If they're working and talking quietly...who cares? They're doing the work and responding positively to English. If they're being loud and refusing to do work, then discipline will be fairly applied. We only really have trouble with our second years, 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3...that will change next year.

Something, something...darkside.

[moolooman]

I marvel at any order being kept. Given that there is no learning in context, no differentiation, no consideration for different intelligences (Gardner), and MEXTall in the way of meaningful positive reinforcement I am not surprised the kids are a MEXTup.

[jp_headonJohn]

Hi Paul.
Thanks for the comment! I was trying to refer to the student Jessen100 is having trouble with, I think in the video Ken Robinson presents a very good point that may give Jessen100 a little insight in how to deal with the situation.

Students learn in many different ways and by “teachers adapt” I really mean we should be providing opportunities for all students to learn in the class regardless of their level or learning style.
Learning how to adapt to a teacher or any other person is a part of life, and in the social context it is very important, however IMHO it is not an excuse for not providing to students individual needs.

Hi Azuhl
Thanks for your comment too, I have a textbook that I used in the first year of uni called “becoming a teacher” and multiple personalities is listed as one of the traits of a Good Professional teacher.

Thanks

[jessen100]

its not so much that im having trouble with the student, i could deal with him if i want to but it would take up too much of the other 30 students time. im saying that he doesnt belong in class with the other students. i know thats how they do things here sometimes, but i really dont think he belongs. i still need to watch the video though, i forgot when i got home.

[azuhlLt.]

Hey jp, I'll bear that in minds.

[himitsu]

im saying that he doesnt belong in class with the other students. i know thats how they do things here sometimes, but i really dont think he belongs.

Alas, almost every class in Japan has one of those (or more)... it's simply ridiculous, but looks like we can only put up with it... (or how about one of us becomes PM and changes the system )

[jp_headonJohn]

Alas, almost every class in Japan has one of those (or more)... it's simply ridiculous, but looks like we can only put up with it... (or how about one of us becomes PM and changes the system )

Inclusion has been proven to be benificial to all in the classroom, the only problem I can see is that the Japanese classroom environment is not suitable for inclusion to be efective. Take a look at "Primary special needs-making inclusion work" on teachers tv Australia. http://www.teacherstv.com.au/ I think it is good that the schools over here see the importance of inclusion but I too think it is Ridiculous that they do a half ass job at it.

[Paul]

(or how about one of us becomes PM and changes the system )

Ahhh, interesting idea, yet alas I do not believe that the PM here wields any discernible power seeing as how the position is a revolving door that leaves all the true power with the bureaucratic government types that have little to no experience or knowledge about what is actually happening down in the trenches.

On a different but somewhat related note regarding ES classes, I have found through my own experience that many if not most of the ES classes tend over the course of the year to mirror in a manner of speaking their HR teacher's personality. Upbeat happy teachers, an upbeat happy class, a strict disciplinarian type teacher, a quiet well behaved class, and so on and so forth.

[jeisensei]

My sister works with special needs students in a special needs school so I get to hear all about inclusion into normal classes vs. non-inclusion. (I know I am taking a step away from hyperactivity of students, but it can be argued that it is all under the same umbrella) The thing is, both of those styles have good points and bad points. In the end it is up to the mind set of the school, the teachers and the other students in the classroom as well as the degree of the student's disability. In the end, if a student with a disability is mixed in with a class of students with no disabilities, it is up to the teacher to manage the situation and make sure everything goes smoothly. It is their class after all.

[pakalikaPakalika]

I went off on a student yesterday in 2nd year jr high school. he is one of those kids who are always making loud comments at what ever I say. so I finally blew up at him. mad him stand up. threw his chair out the room. made him come to the front of the class while giving him a arm take down to get to the front of the class and yelling at him in the front of the class. after that he was a good little boy after standing in front of the class for like 10 mins while the lesson went on. was I wrong?

[moolooman]

It is dangerous to get the fire in your belly. What if he had of stood his ground? What would you have done.?
It is pretty MEXTed here, because there is such a dereliction of duty from so many people when it comes to behaviour management, that those who try and take a stand often find themselves pissing into the wind.

[jeisensei]

As one of my teachers said to me once. "If a kid makes you truly angry, you can swear at him and tell him to leave the classroom all you want as long as it is in English." That is because if you tell them to leave the classroom in Japanese you are impeding to their right to learn and that is against the law. I can't say if you were wrong or not, just be careful if you want to do something like that.

[Otaku]

Wrong? I think you're the only one that can decide that. Yeah, there are those strict-constructionalists who will say that you don't have a right to lay down the law since you are a 'pawn', but then there are others that will back you up. In my experience, I've found usually the ones who have your back, believe it or not, are your own Japanese co-workers.

However, wrong/right aside, it's a good opportunity to self-reflect to see if you would make the same decision in the future?

In my opinion, and this is strictly my opinion, if the intent behind your action was to try and improve the learning environment of your classroom, you are never wrong...as long as you're willing to reap any reprocussions due to your decision.

[Paul]

As one of my teachers said to me once. "If a kid makes you truly angry, you can swear at him and tell him to leave the classroom all you want as long as it is in English." That is because if you tell them to leave the classroom in Japanese you are impeding to their right to learn and that is against the law. I can't say if you were wrong or not, just be careful if you want to do something like that.

This is so true. Even the Japanese teachers have to be very careful in situations that get out of hand. At a school here a few years back a couple of boys were fighting, punching, pushing, wrestling each other. A couple of other teachers to break it up, and one of the teachers yelled at both boys to get out of the classroom. They took her literally at her word and left, they also left school as well, and continued fighting outside the school grounds.

One of the boys had to be hospitalized for his injuries and the parents came to school and laid the blame straight on the doorstep of the school and teachers for telling the kids to leave.

[Paul]

I went off on a student yesterday in 2nd year jr high school. he is one of those kids who are always making loud comments at what ever I say. so I finally blew up at him. mad him stand up. threw his chair out the room. made him come to the front of the class while giving him a arm take down to get to the front of the class and yelling at him in the front of the class. after that he was a good little boy after standing in front of the class for like 10 mins while the lesson went on. was I wrong?

I agree with Otaku's response and jei's as well.

Don't second guess yourself if you believe you were right. But I would suggest reflecting on your actions to try to find out the reason why this time you reacted as you did and try to find a better course of action the next time.

Many times I feel like crap afterwards, mainly because I feel like I lost control of the situation and the kid got the better of me, even though I may have put them in their place and effected a positive change for the moment I still end up feeling shitty because as an adult I should know better ways to change the situation.

[himitsu]

@jp looks like registration is necessary to watch your video..

I don`t know, it`s very hard for me to believe this "inclusion" is meaningful and can work. Maybe for certain cases, but there are endless types of handicaps and I think the majority needs special treatment. Not only is it better for the other healthy students, but for the special needs ones as well.
Two examples from my JHS:
- we have one girl in a wheelchair, and as the school doesn`t have an elevator, 4 teachers have to carry her every day up and down the stairs to the 3rd floor. They also had to build a western style toilet only for her, making it the only one in the school (boys still have only jp style though).
- in our English club there is a 1nensei who usually seems just like any other student, but has an emotional and mental disorder. Not only can`t she even read and write Japanese like the other students (in case of English she basically always just tries to imitate, but without someone to tell her every time, she wouldn`t be able to read, write or speak it), she also gets frustrated, down or even furious very easily. The other day, because she lost at a game we were playing, she suddenly punched and smashed a window! Not only the deed itself is no good, but it`s also bad for the other students. Apart from being startled and shocked, now they feel insecure sometimes. That would mean we can never play games unless we let her always win. She also can`t take any criticism, so we have to avoid making her feel she did something wrong. And these are only a few issues..

[himitsu]

as an adult I should know better ways to change the situation.

easier said than done, isn`t it... in the end, we are not psychologists, nor did we get any similar training... and when I ask jp teachers what you can do in such situations, no one has a good answer (most common being "nothing").

[jeisensei]

That is why after doing something (anything really) it is always good to reflect on it and ask yourself if it was the best thing to do(as Otaku said). That way if a similar situation occurs again you will be more ready to deal with it in a better way.

[Paul]

in the end, we are not psychologists, nor did we get any similar training..

Well some may not have, that was my first major in college.

[himitsu]

does it help?

[Paul]

does it help?

Someday's yes, other's no.

Kids here are as I see it the same as kids I have seen or met anywhere else I've been in the world, but I think that in many ways they are slow to mature and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just takes getting accustomed to some behavior and manners that they show, where as maybe their counter part in lets say the US would find to be childish as best.

Many kids here are very intelligent, book-wise that is, yet are way behind the curve in independence and common sense kinds of things, hence too I believe the cultural problems that occur as they grow up in age but stay depressed in their emotional and spiritual development. And lord forgive me here for being REALLY general in my comment.

Doing nothing many times just keeps the status quo in place and to many that's how I see that people, JT's anyway, like it.

[pakalikaPakalika]

I talked to the JTE after the class and he said i was fine. That I did nothing wrong. This JTE though has no class management at all. the students laugh at him when he tells them to do something. I guess it made the class better. I mean the bad boys were quiet after that, trying to learn. I did not stop him from learning since he was in the classroom looking at my book. I know I probably could have done it different, which I will. Navy style, I will make him stand up or ask the soccer coach to make the whole team run cuz of his actions. The basketball coach goes along if i tell the boys club to run. but the soccer coach I have not talk to yet. think i might