American English vs. British English in schools

[himitsu]

Does anyone know the reason why American English is taught in jp. schools? Just because of the WWII thing?
It so pisses me off to teach "soccer" Why would anyone in the world, apart from NA, NZ and AUS people, say "soccer" instead of "football"???
Feels like I'd say in English "main vide" (f) or "leere Hand" (ger) instead of "karate"..!

[moolooman]

We call it soccer, because if you call it football, it might get mixed up with a real game like rugby, rugby league, AFL, or American Football.

[moolooman]

I would suspect it is entirely the WWII thing as to why American English is spoken and taught.

[himitsu]

I know why NA-AUS-NZ call it "soccer", but I find it strange when Japanese call (and teach) it that way in English, as it sounds like America would be famous for it...
And I still think it's nonsense that US call it soccer, there is no problem with "football", as the other one is called "American football" (even though the "foot" is only used for running here... then we could call tennis "racket football", and ice hockey "ice football"... oh yeah, and basketball must be short for "basket football" ). That you abbreviate it sometimes to "football" is a pity, and it always creates confusion.
And actually your sport should rather be called "American rugby", it has nothing to do with BE football.
ps: @mooloman - you were right calling American football a "game", I wouldn't call bumping into each other a sport, either
pps: btw, you know where the word "soccer" comes from? "association football", asSOC(cer)iation! That's so... let's put it friendly, weird!

[GETAK]

Do people say "soccer" down in Australia and NZ, too?

Know what's funny though? Guess who created the word "soccer":

http://www.soccer-fans-info.com/origin-of-the-word-soccer.html

Here's another:
"...even English people called the game "soccer" interchangeably with "football" until the 1970s..."

Above quote from this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_for_association_football

You beat me to it Himitsu! Well enjoy the articles anyway.

[himitsu]

Yeah, just saw it myself (before your posting)!
Yeah, AUS is also soccer, NZ not sure, but I think it's the same.

I support a standardized usage, everywhere the same for less confusion! (I know it's probably never gonna happen)
And as it was founded in the UK, and it makes perfect sense (foot-ball), it should be "football". Btw, as far as I know it's called like that (or similar) in most other languages (at least much more than "soccer"): Fr - futbol, Ger-Fussball, Esp - futbol, Rus-futbol, Rom-fotbal, aso.

I'm surprised that Irish, though next to England, call it "soccer"! Or it might be on purpose, as they hate the English ^^
But my favorite is Bulgarian, from now on, I'll say to my English speaking friends "hey, let's play some ritnitop"

[Paul]

Guys ( and any Ladies too) you all got to keep reminding yourselves once in a while that the world to JHS kids and teachers alike consists of Japan and Gaikoku-amerika-land.

Nothing else counts. NZ, Aussieland, England, and anywhere are all a part of America, or somewhere else vague and not Japanese or Asian.

[Buddy-Tom]

Except for when they don't recognise America as America, when for example asked where they have traveled they say they haven't been to America, but they've been to Hawaii.

[Paul]

Except for when they don't recognise America as America, when for example asked where they have traveled they say they haven't been to America, but they've been to Hawaii.

How true how true! Last week I had my yearly visit to some elementary schools and reminded the kids that Hawaii is a part of the USA.

I told them like this; I asked a friend if they had ever been to Amerika, they answered, no never been, but I have been to Hawaii! I told the kids it's the same as asking a foreigner friend if they had ever been to Japan. They answered of course not, but I have been to Okinawa.

The kids on the ball (and teachers I might add) got it, but quite a few were like.......

Oh I also reminded them as well that there is no country named "America". While in Japanese they may call it a number of different names there are two "American" continents and Central America as well. Just remember that North America and South America refer to continents and beikoku, amerika, or amerika gashukoku, refer to the US of A.

[Buddy-Tom]

You do have to remember that in the UK, for example, it's quite common to refer to the USA as America. I believe it's also relatively common in the Colonies, save for Canada (where they've developed a dreadful American English habit over the last half of the 20th century and beyond).

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

You do have to remember that in the UK, for example, it's quite common to refer to the USA as America. I believe it's also relatively common in the Colonies, save for Canada (where they've developed a dreadful American English habit over the last half of the 20th century and beyond).

Yeah, lots of us try to carry on the good fight. But the American English is like a disease. It infects us from all over. For example the spell checkers on various computer programs.

The public school teachers still teach us Brittish English but kids are all too busy watching American T.V programs and using American software. Clearly when teachers are up against the kids entertainment they have no hope!


And U.S.A is America.

[jeisensei]

Yeah, lots of us try to carry on the good fight. But the American English is like a disease.

Along the same lines I am reading a Japanese book now called "日本語（にほんご）が亡びる（ほろびる）とき" and it is all about how American English is being used as an international language and it is driving most other languages (including Japanese) into extinction. A great read, but one I fear will never be translated into English (I doubt the author would allow it).

[himitsu]

concerning country names:
I do find it kinda confusing too, America vs. USA. Usually America=USA, you never say "I went to America" when you are talking about Brazil or even Canada. And the continent(s) are referred to as "the Americas", but never heard that in a normal conversation.. And still somehow we can associate America to the whole continent. I think it's best if the word "America" standing alone is abandoned, so there is no confusion and we don't have to teach this complicated stuff (waste of precious time).
Same for "Igirisu", that's sooo troublesome! And how is it possible that Japanese have no idea what "Igirisu" actually is (some think it's just England, some think it's GB, only a few know it's UK). And how is it possible they never use "Ingurando" or "Gureeto Buriten"...? And then you have Ireland, which no one (in Japan) knows where it belongs to, or that they speak English...
It's all such a mess... Would be so much easier if it were all separate countries (the way it actually is in football, for some reason).

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

(the way it actually is in football, for some reason)

You mean soccer?

[himitsu]

soccer? what's that?
yeah, I don't mean American football
FIFA divides the UK in its 4 different countries (can it be called "country", if it's all one government?)

[Paul]

On the GB/England thing, just this AM one JHS 2nd yr teacher asked me to print out some country flags for her passport/immigration class in NH.

Once country she had listed was England, so I printed out the English flag, am now waiting for her to ask me what flag it is, because I am pretty darn sure she wanted the Union Jack. Maybe she will learn something, ever hopeful that I am.

[Otaku]

Written by: Otaku's Evil Brother

Let's crack this baby wide open!

You know what's funny, it always seems to be someone non-American that takes the first pop-shot at American English. You'll most likely never find an American taking the first shot. Why? Simply, we don't care. We can communicate, and we do quite well actually, that's all that matters to us.

Simply put, trying to lay claim on an ever evolving living language is ludicrious. English is created from so many different types of language to try and say, "We made it! It was us!" is plain stupid. It looks to me like a simple case of A-English envy?

---------------------------

BRITISH ENGLISH: Ya'll know the British didn't even create English, right? It was given to them by Germanic settlers, so to try and lay claim to it is laughable. Now, if they wanna lay claim to British Language, a.k.a. 'Brythonic', that would a fair claim. You know why we set off from that rock over there, right? We were tired of your posh and arrogant attitudes: "No, you must put 15 billion more letters into 'neighbour' for it to be spelled correctly." I think this mentality is left over from the Christian Wars... We, the people, believe English should not only be for the well-educated but for everyone, rich and poor. It only makes sense to spell 'realise' with a Z if actually sounds like a Z when you say it.

SOCCER: The British created the word "soccer" but now are angry that Americans use it? Hell, even other UKians and even people inside of England use it. Enough said...shuuuuutup!

KIDS WATCHING AMERICAN SHOWS: I don't think it's fair to blame America for creating quality shows that successfully attract kids' attention. On the contrary, what does that say about the shows from across the pond? I suggest making more than 6 episodes per season if you want to draw interest. A mere 6 episodes is a taste test. You need more episodes! I think this is yet another example of American TV show envy, me thinks...

AMERICAN SOFTWARE: Let me get this straight for specificity sake, Americans make a product, British use the product and complain it wasn't designed for them? I think both countries would agree this is simply 'bitching'? However, to cater to the whiners, doesn't newer American products have the option to choose British spelling as a spell checker?

---------------------------------------

Alright, now that I've cracked this puppy wide open...

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

On the GB/England thing, just this AM one JHS 2nd yr teacher asked me to print out some country flags for her passport/immigration class in NH.

Once country she had listed was England, so I printed out the English flag, am now waiting for her to ask me what flag it is, because I am pretty darn sure she wanted the Union Jack. Maybe she will learn something, ever hopeful that I am.

Nice one!

[himitsu]

about Otaku's posting: I for my part never meant to say AE is bad, but was rather talking about specific examples. Certainly, sometimes AE makes more sense than BE (theatre/er, centre/er..). And sometimes they "repaired" what wasn't broken. I think, where it makes sense, AE and BE should agree on only one version (would also make our job easier). Of course I'm talking here about an idealised world which might never exist, but allow me to dream.
About "football vs. soccer" again, it's just weird if the world takes an expression from a country that is not in the slightest famous for that (the spread of the word "soccer" definitely comes from AE, even if it was created by the Brits). And not only that, it also creates too much confusion (you might not be aware of that, if you are not into it though - but I have to deal with it every time I'm asked about my hobbies).

even other UKians and even people inside of England use it.

must be very few though, I'd imagine..

[Otaku]

It's not our fault we bicker amongst ourselves. It's the Japanese for teaching American English than inviting in non-American English speakers in to teach American English. It's bullcrap!

I say take out everything in the textbook that is one-country sided that we can't all agreed with. For example, Canada's lacrosse would be the next to go... :)

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

Canada's lacrosse would be the next to go...

here here. The only time I played is when I was forced to on an Indian reservation field trip. Chicks tend to like it in highschool though.

I am all for a new standardised version of English myself, but the details as mentioned above would have to be voted on. Purely logically speaking of course. With phonetics thouroughly reviewed. None of this subjective knee jerk my nation is better than your nation stuff.

[Paul]

then inviting in non-American English speakers in to teach American English. It's bullcrap!

Don't know Otaku, seems to me that the average Japanese person can not differentiate between the two and assume, wrongly of course, that all of it is spawned from AE.

Would you rather they include cricket instead of lacrosse? I mean the NH text is supposed to be Canada-centric, but then of course blows that to hell by including baseball from SanFran et al.

[himitsu]

In a way it's understandable they'd choose AE for Japanese schools, not only because of the war, but also because it's spreading much more than BE, due to pop culture. But yeah, the best thing to do imo, would be to teach them both BE and AE, ie. always point out when there is a different version.
Not only would it be good for us teachers, but even more for the learners. I can imagine the situation (picking the above mentioned sport again): "Kenji let's play football this Sunday" "Errr... maybe some other time", thinking (I'd love to play soccer, but (American) football seems too dangerous..)

[Buddy-Tom]

There is one standard English already, The Queen's English (some call it RP or Oxford English). In America you have General American, or Standard American English (think news readers and movies). There is much more overall awareness in the UK of regional accents and dialects, just as there is in Japan. Americans tend to be much less aware of their own regional biases, and unable to recognise and therefore explain non-standard usages.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

Americans tend to be much less aware of their own regional biases, and unable to recognise and therefore explain non-standard usages.

bazzzzing.

[himitsu]

Another example of BE-AE-confusion:
holidays vs. vacation vs. holiday vs. break vs. ...

Please correct me if I'm wrong. As far as I know:

Holidays (pl.) - BE. e.g.: summer holidays (usually used with "during". do you ever use "in"?)
Vacation (sg.) - AE. e.g.: summer vacation (same)
Holiday (sg.) - AE+BE: referring only to one single public holiday OR when going on a trip.
Break (sg.) - not sure. e.g. summer break (school)

[gsuiris]

There is one standard English already, The Queen's English (some call it RP or Oxford English). In America you have General American, or Standard American English (think news readers and movies). There is much more overall awareness in the UK of regional accents and dialects, just as there is in Japan. Americans tend to be much less aware of their own regional biases, and unable to recognise and therefore explain non-standard usages.

Have to disagree with you, at least on accents. I think a good number of Americans can tell where a person is from based on their accent. Even within the larger regions there are variations, too. For example, in the South people can sometimes tell which region another is from.

Just think about how people speak in New York vs Boston vs Texas vs LA.

[Paul]

Another example of BE-AE-confusion:
holidays vs. vacation vs. holiday vs. break vs. ...

Please correct me if I'm wrong. As far as I know:

Holidays (pl.) - BE. e.g.: summer holidays (usually used with "during". do you ever use "in"?)
Vacation (sg.) - AE. e.g.: summer vacation (same)
Holiday (sg.) - AE+BE: referring only to one single public holiday OR when going on a trip.
Break (sg.) - not sure. e.g. summer break (school)

I don't know if it's just me, but these really are not confusing as I am able to understand, even though I speak AE, that break-holiday-vacation all mean basically the same thing, time off from either work or school.

Also I would add that vacation in AE is not limited to summer either, only school age peeps would say summer vacation really, working type peeps would just say they are taking vacation. Which could be at any given time during the course of the year.

I dont know of too many AE speakers either that would use the word "holiday" AE+BE: referring only to one single public holiday OR when going on a trip. when going on a trip they would more than likely say they are either on vacation or taking a vacation. Taking a holiday iirc is typically BE, or Aussie, NZ, Indian, English.

[Richard_BenoitEnglipedia Drone]

I agree with you Paul. But being here for such a long time you start to lose grasp of what a native would use ... EH?

[moolooman]

As a speaker of the good Queen`s English (and who was sent to allecution lessons by his mum in his formative years), I would have to say that holiday, vacation, break are the same thing.