Justify Child Abduction by Japanese Parents!!

[TENGU]

We have all seen the stories of child abduction,

i.e. http://japanchildabduction.com/

but how can we help justify the Japanese governments condoning of this activity. It seems there are so many people up in arms about this case, again attacking the Japanese way of thinking. It seems the attacking of the Japanese way of life/thinking is even even occurring in mainstream Western media:

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=I43P1YCD

the above link shows a vile depiction of the Japanese in a popular animated series known as "south park".

Is this constant ploy of showing Japanese in an unsavory light helping to fuel the furor over children of Japanese being rightfully taken to be with their Japanese parents in Japan?


What's your view, even if only half a child's DNA is Japanese it is entitled to be raised amongst it's kin in the motherland, isn't it?

[lkelly2477]

Its a sad story. And nothing can be done till Japan signs the accord. I beleive a child should be with the parent they want to be with.

[Otaku]

Just to throw a kink into the gears, lkelly, what if the child is too young to decide who they want to be with? Then what?

[TENGU]

Why should Japan be reined in by other countries' ideals of how filial matters are resolved? If the gaijin went to Japan, married an aboriginal and had a half aboriginal kid, what gives the gaijin any right to pluck the half kid from its native land and be dragged halfway around the world?_

[Otaku]

Welcome back, Tengu.

What right does the gaijin have? uuummm, flesh and blood rights. I would dare say that outweighs any 'ripping from native land' argument. But, I think your kinda fuddling the argument a bit. You only want to talk about children with a foreign parent where the child was born in Japan, and yet seem to ignore the ones that were born in another country and/or have more time spent in a foreign country.

This whole problem only exists because Japan refuses to sign the Hague Convention Treaty. The problem is what happens when an international marriage is resolved? This is something that should be decided in the international courts...however, Japan hasn't signed onto the HC, which has created this abduction problem.

[Paul]

Interesting how this topic came up here now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/15/japan.custody.battle/index.html

TOKYO, Japan (CNN) -- Japanese authorities have released an American man who was jailed for allegedly trying to snatch back his children from his estranged wife.


Christopher Savoie was jailed in Japan after trying to get kids back from their mother.

Police in the rural southern town of Yanagawa let Christopher Savoie go Thursday without indicting him on charges of child kidnapping.

Officials said the indictment was "on hold," but did not elaborate.

The prosecutor's office in nearby Fukuoka said Savoie was released after he promised not to take his children back to the United States "in this manner," implying he could not have any contact with the children.

Savoie, 38, a Tennessee native and naturalized Japanese citizen, allegedly grabbed his children -- 8-year-old Isaac and 6-year-old Rebecca -- as his estranged wife walked them to school on September 28 in Yanagawa.

With the children, Savoie headed for the nearest U.S. consulate, in the city of Fukuoka, to try to obtain passports for them. Screaming at guards to let him in the compound, Savoie was steps from the front gate but still standing on Japanese soil when he was arrested. Watch how dad promised not to see kids »

Consulate spokeswoman Tracy Taylor said her office had been notified that Savoie would be released Thursday afternoon.

"We are pleased to learn that Mr. Savoie was released from police custody," she said. "We hope that we can work with the Japanese government to come to a long term solution on the issue of international parental child abduction." Watch how Savoie's release was worked out »

Savoie and his first wife, Noriko Savoie, were married for 14 years before a bitter divorce in January. The couple lived in Japan but had moved to the United States before the divorce.

Christopher Savoie remarried in February.

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Noriko Savoie was given custody of the children and agreed to remain in the United States. Christopher Savoie had visitation rights.

On the day that the children were to start school in August, Savoie learned that Noriko Savoie had fled with them to Japan.

After they went to Japan, Christopher Savoie filed for and received full custody of the children. Police in Franklin, Tennessee, issued an arrest warrant for Noriko Savoie. However, Japan is not a party to a 1980 Hague Convention law on international child abduction.

Japanese law also follows a tradition of sole-custody divorces. When a couple splits, one parent typically makes a complete and lifelong break from the children.

Complicating the matter is the fact that the couple is still considered married in Japan because they never divorced here, police said. In addition, Japanese authorities say, the children hold Japanese passports.

Foreign parents have had little luck in regaining custody, the U.S. State Department said.

Noriko Savoie's mother did not want to talk about Christopher Savoie's release on Thursday.

"I cannot make any comment on this, for the sake of my grandchildren," she said.

Upon hearing news of her husband's release, Amy Savoie told CNN, "The elation lasted for a few minutes and now we're back to square one, where there's no closure. We don't have Isaac and Rebecca in a situation from which they were taken. Isaac and Rebecca had a very, very happy situation here in Tennessee. ... They have people who love them here." Watch what Christopher Savoie's second wife says about the case »

She said she did not believe the parties could work out an agreeable arrangement regarding the children. "There are two parents who love these children and one of them has just been -- just cast aside."

She said other parents in similar situations have contacted her. "I think the focus for us will be, you know, we'll become spokespersons, I suppose, for so many of these families."



Yasuhisa Kawamura, a spokesman with the Foreign Ministry, said the government may reconsider signing on to the Hague treaty.

"Japanese government is also considering seriously to conclude this treaty on the grounds that this treaty would provide one of the most effective measures to protect the children after their parents divorced," he said.

[TENGU]

Interesting how this topic came up here now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/15/japan.custody.battle/index.html

TOKYO, Japan (CNN) -- Japanese authorities have released an American man who was jailed for allegedly trying to snatch back his children from his estranged wife.


Christopher Savoie was jailed in Japan after trying to get kids back from their mother.

Police in the rural southern town of Yanagawa let Christopher Savoie go Thursday without indicting him on charges of child kidnapping.

Officials said the indictment was "on hold," but did not elaborate.

The prosecutor's office in nearby Fukuoka said Savoie was released after he promised not to take his children back to the United States "in this manner," implying he could not have any contact with the children.

Savoie, 38, a Tennessee native and naturalized Japanese citizen, allegedly grabbed his children -- 8-year-old Isaac and 6-year-old Rebecca -- as his estranged wife walked them to school on September 28 in Yanagawa.

With the children, Savoie headed for the nearest U.S. consulate, in the city of Fukuoka, to try to obtain passports for them. Screaming at guards to let him in the compound, Savoie was steps from the front gate but still standing on Japanese soil when he was arrested. Watch how dad promised not to see kids »

Consulate spokeswoman Tracy Taylor said her office had been notified that Savoie would be released Thursday afternoon.

"We are pleased to learn that Mr. Savoie was released from police custody," she said. "We hope that we can work with the Japanese government to come to a long term solution on the issue of international parental child abduction." Watch how Savoie's release was worked out »

Savoie and his first wife, Noriko Savoie, were married for 14 years before a bitter divorce in January. The couple lived in Japan but had moved to the United States before the divorce.

Christopher Savoie remarried in February.

Don't Miss
Attorney: American father mistreated in Japanese jail
Dad in Japan custody battle thought wife would take kids
Father in Japan: 'I didn't do anything wrong'
Noriko Savoie was given custody of the children and agreed to remain in the United States. Christopher Savoie had visitation rights.

On the day that the children were to start school in August, Savoie learned that Noriko Savoie had fled with them to Japan.

After they went to Japan, Christopher Savoie filed for and received full custody of the children. Police in Franklin, Tennessee, issued an arrest warrant for Noriko Savoie. However, Japan is not a party to a 1980 Hague Convention law on international child abduction.

Japanese law also follows a tradition of sole-custody divorces. When a couple splits, one parent typically makes a complete and lifelong break from the children.

Complicating the matter is the fact that the couple is still considered married in Japan because they never divorced here, police said. In addition, Japanese authorities say, the children hold Japanese passports.

Foreign parents have had little luck in regaining custody, the U.S. State Department said.

Noriko Savoie's mother did not want to talk about Christopher Savoie's release on Thursday.

"I cannot make any comment on this, for the sake of my grandchildren," she said.

Upon hearing news of her husband's release, Amy Savoie told CNN, "The elation lasted for a few minutes and now we're back to square one, where there's no closure. We don't have Isaac and Rebecca in a situation from which they were taken. Isaac and Rebecca had a very, very happy situation here in Tennessee. ... They have people who love them here." Watch what Christopher Savoie's second wife says about the case »

She said she did not believe the parties could work out an agreeable arrangement regarding the children. "There are two parents who love these children and one of them has just been -- just cast aside."

She said other parents in similar situations have contacted her. "I think the focus for us will be, you know, we'll become spokespersons, I suppose, for so many of these families."



Yasuhisa Kawamura, a spokesman with the Foreign Ministry, said the government may reconsider signing on to the Hague treaty.

"Japanese government is also considering seriously to conclude this treaty on the grounds that this treaty would provide one of the most effective measures to protect the children after their parents divorced," he said.

What do you mean, interesting?

[TENGU]

What right does the gaijin have? uuummm, flesh and blood rights. I would dare say that outweighs any 'ripping from native land' argument.

Nope, "flesh and blood" rights mean nothing, in Japan, upon divorce one parent typically gives up all and any access to a child.

But, I think your kinda fuddling the argument a bit. You only want to talk about children with a foreign parent where the child was born in Japan, and yet seem to ignore the ones that were born in another country and/or have more time spent in a foreign country.

I'm certainly not ignoring anyone, I posted the link as an example as it was the first thing google spat back at me. Paul's link points to a case which sort of fits your criteria except that the gaijin is a naturalized Japanese which kind of creates a vortex of semantic instability (how can a gaijin not be a gaijin when the gaijin glove fits.....anyways that's been dealt with in another thread...)

This whole problem only exists because Japan refuses to sign the Hague Convention Treaty. The problem is what happens when an international marriage is resolved? This is something that should be decided in the international courts...however, Japan hasn't signed onto the HC, which has created this abduction problem.

Why should Japan sign the treaty?

[lkelly2477]

Just to throw a kink into the gears, lkelly, what if the child is too young to decide who they want to be with? Then what?

In that case the child should stay with the parent thats in the country they were born or live in. I think It's wrong to snatch them out of one environment and throw them into another.

[crustpunker]

I would like to make the case that this issue is fairly blown out of proporshunnnn.

The stereotype of divorce here is that in fact, one parent usually gets full custody of the kids but there are many upon many cases where the divorced couple agree with one another to allow the kids to have access to both parents. It is not like this is unheard of.

Not that I am defending the skit system that is currently in place regarding joint custody "laws" in Japan. Just trying to remind people to take in what you read and see in the media with a grain of salt.

[Otaku]

Fair enough. Divorce in Japan usually means a complete divorce in relationship and life from each other completely. And, yeah the kid usually goes to one parent and the other parent removes him/herself completely.

But, with international marriages, I don't think you can embrace either culture's way of doing things. You've got to come to some kind of agreement and I think that's where signing the Hague Convention comes into play. It forces two people parting ways to play nice and fair.

[Otaku]

Another article on the case...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091113/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_us_custody_battle

Evidentially, the J-mom violated a U.S. court custody decision FIRST. Then, she jumped on the plane and flew to Japan with the kids.

I love this part: "Tokyo has argued that the Hague Convention could hinder its ability to shield Japanese women and their children fleeing abusive foreign husbands."

I love how they throw in that extra little adjective.

[lkelly2477]

Japan is finally taking some steps to look at this serious issue due to international criticism.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20091203a2.html

[Paul]

Its a step in the right direction！

[Otaku]

It is indeed a step in the right direction, but it makes you wonder if it's also one step closer to losing its culture that Japan holds so preciously dear?

"However, signing the Hague Convention is just a small step forward on a long journey toward solving child abduction issues involving international couples. The government would also have to change the Civil Code to allow both parents to have parental rights after divorce, lawyers said."

BTW, nice article find lkelly.

[TENGU]

they still managed to get the "gaijin are violent" dig in.

[lkelly2477]

BTW, nice article find lkelly.

Thanks!

[Paul]

It is indeed a step in the right direction, but it makes you wonder if it's also one step closer to losing its culture that Japan holds so preciously dear?

I don't see that as such a bad thing. Hell there is plenty from the "culture" of Japan that no longer holds true today. The culture evolves along with time in my opinion and there are plenty of things in all cultures that need to get tossed by the wayside.

Also if allowing children to be used as pawns between parents is such a dear part of the culture why would anyone want to hold that culture up to be, or as, and example that should be emulated by others?