Offensive Terms

[TENGU]

@Admin: before you have a seizure over the thread, it is linguistically valid and has no racism intended whatsoever, if you decide you can allow linguistic discourse delete this paragraph, thanks.


I always find it curious that some people fly off the handle when some words are used but are perfectly happy to let others slide.

I can't seem to find a poll function so look at the list and please comment on which terms you find offensive and why?



*Brit

*Aussie

*Kraut

*Yank

*Jap

*Paki

*Scot

*Paddy



Thanks for your input in language understanding.

[Paul]

I created the poll for you. The poll creation function is at the bottom of the page when you are creating a new thread.

[TENGU]

I created the poll for you. The poll creation function is at the bottom of the page when you are creating a new thread.

thanks but it wasnt listed where it used to be.

[Otaku]

I'm not quite sure what the poll was but I think we are supposed to mark all the terms we find offensive? I hope so cuz thats what I did.

I thought they ranged in offensiveness, except Aussie. I use Aussie with my A-peeps and there seems to be no bad connotations to it. I think it kinda sounds cool...

[Paul]

Well I think that there are going to be differences based upon one's age and background, yet I must say that I have British friends that refer to themselves as Brit's, as well as Aussies, and Scot's as well.

[Otaku]

I think you probably just hit it on the head there, Paul. Age and experience with other cultures would probably determine your view point on what's offensive. However, I think terms like "Jap" are pretty universally offensive.

[TENGU]

Why are you making uncorroborated assumptions again Otaku, FGS take those rosy j-glasses off. "Terms like 'jap'", what do you mean by this statement? contractions from country names? which contractions are ok and which aren't?

[Paul]

I would like to share a story about something that happened to my mother when she turned 20 in February of 1942. She received a gold pendant with her initials engraved on it for her birthday from her Mom and Dad. It was the first piece of jewelry that she had gotten as a present from them and she wore it around her neck with so much happiness and pride.

That is until she got to work and took off her overcoat and showed it to her coworkers at the office she was at.........

My mother's initials are J.A.P. She told us she caught so much crap from her a number of people that worked with her and was told in not so polite terms to never wear that pendant out in the open in her office or face termination. She was so shocked and never realized until that moment the significance of what was on the pendant. She told us she cried so hard but never told her parents about the episode because she never wanted to hurt their feelings.

She never wore it again in the open at work or when she was out somewhere and put it on at home but took it off when she went and and put it back on before entering the house.

Different generation different time.
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Here is one more that I experienced. One of my father's brothers was killed here in Okinawa during the Battle of Okinawa. Of course that was well prior to me or my wife being born but one of my father's other brothers, my uncle, an uncle with whom I played with countless times as a child and a man that I always looked up to and loved hurt me in ways that I still have a hard time understanding even after he has been dead now for over 10 years.

I came home from Okinawa the first time and was making plans for a quick wedding. I only had 3 weeks before I had to be at my next place of work, so with the help of my brothers and sisters we called all the relatives and put together a wedding reception. I called this favorite Uncle and asked him to please come and to make a speech as well.

What he replied with I can not write here. In simpler terms her told me that I was dishonoring the memory of his dead brother, an uncle of mine that I never knew, by marrying a dirty mexting JAPanese person. He couldnt believe that I would even consider her as a mate, let alone have the nerve to bring her into the family.

Long story short here, there is a bit more that transpired between us and other family members as well, but unfortunately for all of us he never came, nor anyone from his family, my cousins either. From that day I never spoke to him or had any coorespondence with either him or anyone in his family.

JAP in any form is still to me in many ways, and to many Japanese people that I know as well, particularly one's that emigrated from Japan to the US a derogatoryand detested term.

Maybe someday that will change, and I could add any number of other offensive terms to the list as well. Yet even though we "know" the words laziness doesnt excuse to me at least people using them.

[Paul]

Why are you making uncorroborated assumptions again Otaku, FGS take those rosy j-glasses off. "Terms like 'jap'", what do you mean by this statement? contractions from country names? which contractions are ok and which aren't?

He is not making assumptions Tengu. The use of the word "jap" has offensive connotations and you know that as well.

If you were discussing contractions from country names the proper contraction for Japan is JP. Noone uses the term Kraut as a contraction for Germany and the people that use it know damn well it is offensive as well.

I figured you were smart enough to know and understand that Tengu. Dont prove me wrong.

[TENGU]

I guess you've never heard of krautrock, read up if you want http://www.krautrock.com/

yawn..................


do you really blame your uncle for his opinion? and that doesn't really have anything to do with the subject at hand. Just be grateful he gave his life so you could have the freedom to have these opinions, if things had gone the other way you'd be singing a different tune.

Anyway that aside....

There are some countries where Jap is part of the vernacular, I think Oz might be one. I know people from all countries I mentioned refer to themselves in the terms I posted, with one exception, can you guess which? That's right the Japanese. The amount of offense embedded in a word depends entirely of the reaction of the recipient, noticed how fag, nigger and queer have all been rendered harmless?

I know, I know, I've heard the speech that it's difficult for the Japanese blah blah buıʇxǝɯ blah, they're different blah blah funya funya. People like you and Otaku acting as gaijin (is this permissable language?????) who like to do the apologist bit and preserve the integrity of yamato do nothing more than promulgate the faux elevated status of the JAPanese.

Where's the outcry over mr.james?!

Get over it dudes. JAP is no more offensive when used in context than any of the other mentioned terms. I bet you don't have a problem with the JAPanese prefixing everything they do with j- to ensure it is not mistakenly counted as being a part of humanity's work.


I bought a buıʇxǝɯ cool jap laptop man, it's awesome.
Have you heard this wicked j-hip hop, it rocks.
Man this krautrock album cover is crazy.
I got watched a great scot comedian last night.


Where's the offence?



I can't believe some of the idiocy that's spouted, especially from you Paul, you've been here nearly 2 decades right? and are fluent in spoken and written Japanese, no? Otaku I can understand being relatively new and still in gaijinbubble world.

Maybe you guys need to take a trip out of j-world park.

[Paul]

Keep this in mind Tengu, you are posting on a forum in Japan, needless to to say regarding Japan and education in Japan.

One would think that people who post here would be culturally aware enough to understand that the use of the word jap when referring to anything related to this country or it's people would have enough common sense to not use vocabulary that very easily could be offensive to the country and it's people.

Me thinks that you are being pedantic about me editing your post where you used that word. I sense it came from laziness more than a desire to piss anyone off.

Live and learn.
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Regarding my uncle, I can understand where his hatred was bred from, more so now that I live here and have seen things from the "other-side". However if wishes were horses then beggars would ride...........
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Jap maybe part of the vernacular in "some" countries but NOT here. Refer to my first paragraph here.


I think you need a lesson in cultural awareness here Tengu. You come across as if common sense is not a part of your vernacular or something that you practice either.

Also your argument about what people in other countries say or do carries no weight here because that is there and this is here.

Ignorance resides everywhere.

[Gibbons]

A slang word about someone's country is only racist in a reasonably homogeneous country. That is why Jap or Nip are more offensive that Yank. I think singling out someone's race is especially offensive, especially if . I am sure you would all agree that N1gger is a lot more offensive than any of the terms Tengu posted here simply because it addresses race and only race.

[TENGU]

(1)Keep this in mind Tengu, you are posting on a forum in Japan, needless to to say regarding Japan and education in Japan.

(2)One would think that people who post here would be culturally aware enough to understand that the use of the word jap when referring to anything related to this country or it's people would have enough common sense to not use vocabulary that very easily could be offensive to the country and it's people.

(3)Me thinks that you are being pedantic about me editing your post where you used that word. I sense it came from laziness more than a desire to piss anyone off.

(4)Live and learn.
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(5)Regarding my uncle, I can understand where his hatred was bred from, more so now that I live here and have seen things from the "other-side". However if wishes were horses then beggars would ride...........
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(6)Jap maybe part of the vernacular in "some" countries but NOT here. Refer to my first paragraph here.


(7)I think you need a lesson in cultural awareness here Tengu. You come across as if common sense is not a part of your vernacular or something that you practice either.

(8) Also your argument about what people in other countries say or do carries no weight here because that is there and this is here.

(9)Ignorance resides everywhere.

1. This forum is not hosted in Japan, nor is it the main server, ask Pat about it. I take it you have not not noticed the cultural bias in the Japanese education system and related educational materials, then again Okinawa is a far cry from the mainland.


2. I would imagine that the majority of visitors to this site are not Japanese and understand the semantics and context in the English language. Those few (read: zero) Japanese who visit might benefit from understanding these features of English.

3. I think you are a d!ck for editing it out rather than posting a comment explaining that in that instance it wasn't derogatory in the least and was used in place of the ubiquitous J-.

4. You don't seem to grasp this concept.

5. Irrelevant. See #4　それは被害妄想 kudos on the pithy epithet though :rolleyes:

6. Some of those countries are listed as contributers on the homepage....hmmmmm. Do the okinawans refer to themselves in the same way Japanese do?............

7. You come across as an old man living an insular existence for so long it has warped your sense of reality, but hey that's your prerogative. If having half the reign on a forum helps stave off the male menopause more power to you. Keep teaching your kids about the world that culture you have long since forgotten let alone been a part of. I can safely say I've been entwined in twice as many cultures as you ever will. Thanks for the condescension though I'll take it mean I made you think.


8. double :rolleyes: cultural relativism at its nadir.........................I guess you also applaud the j-mothers who abduct kids from non j-fathers overseas...............yawn, did you even think about this statement or did you knee type it as a reaction..........

9. Yep and old men like you maintain it. Get with the program mate. Jap, nigger, spick, kook, kike, honky, cracker,cunt, bastard MEXT and the like can all be offensive but it relies solely on context and intent. Your 17th century prescriptive outlook on language and complete dislocation from contemporary culture do nothing to advance cultural understanding/internationalization/国際交流　et al. If anything your outlook retards progress that has been made in recent years. What's next do you want every non japanese to get up in arms at the use of gaijin? pfff you know the origin right...............? 悪漢 <<< you know this is old slang for chinese people...................? do you get incensed at 在日???? <<<< another slur.



Take a chill pill phil, you are about 20 years behind the times, keep teaching your waste of time phonics (snicker), your halloween and thanksgiving malarky and whatever hackneyed slop accounts for Engurish class these days.

Your students would learn more from a semantics lesson than a dozen 'a' says "A" lesson.


Edit and ban as you see fit......................

[TENGU]

A slang word about someone's country is only racist in a reasonably homogeneous country. That is why Jap or Nip are more offensive that Yank. I think singling out someone's race is especially offensive, especially if . I am sure you would all agree that N1gger is a lot more offensive than any of the terms Tengu posted here simply because it addresses race and only race.

Fair dues that 'nigger' might be perceived as being more offensive than others but when you hear ice-t or puff daddy or whoever say "I'm the nigger with the dope shit" or the like. do you find it offensive? nah of course not, it's been rendered harmless. Kraut refers to race, originally coined by a Brit I think, it's been taken on by the Germans and is now a source of pride.


It's all relevant, you see a buck toothed yokel on a porch saying nigger you immediately scream racism, you see a brother saying it on a basketball court you think nothing. The terms themselves are not racist, the way in which they are used are.

I don't know what people's problem with context is.

It's really easy,

1. 外人は自己主張が強すぎる　　(foreigners are too assertive)
2. たくさんの外人は日本の歴史に興味がある　(many foreigners are interested in Japanese history)


1. alludes that foreigners are bad because of their actions and therefore the term gaijin has a negative connotation.
2. alludes that foreigners are good because they are interested in Japanese history.

The word is the same but to a foreign 外人 listener, how do you think they would interpret gaijin 外人?

[Gibbons]

When I lived in Japan, I was a gaijin. I was the only foreigner in my town and it was a bit of a trek to the next town. The gene pool was shallow and they were yokels. Many of my colleagues drove the point home by saying things like, "why don't you teach how our cultures are different"? or "How do Canadians wash their faces"? (seriously) He also told students that Canadians called Japanese people Japs and that Chinese people were dirty.

It's the same all over the world. Small towns are full of ignorance and whether you call that racism, xenophobia or just plain asshole behaviour, it tends to be more common in small isolated towns. Whether I say, "niggers sure run fast" or "niggers sure run slow" is irrelevant. It's racist because I am singling them out based on race and using a term that was associated with lynching and slavery.

As I proposed in another post, the reason it's not offensive when Snoop Dogg says it, is because he carries no shame - his people don't harbour the guilt of their ancestor's actions.

Damn - I need to go reread your post. This set up is frustrating.

ok -



1. 外人は自己主張が強すぎる　　(foreigners are too assertive)
2. たくさんの外人は日本の歴史に興味がある　(many foreigners are interested in Japanese history)

These are both offensive to me (probably because they are both true) but also because they simplify and generalize foreigners. You also biased your 2nd statement by adding the quantifier "many".

For the same reason, I find these statements both offensive.

1. Icelandics will only grow as large as their cage (only true for pre pubescents)
2. If you cut off an Icelandics horns, they will grow back (only true for male Icelandics)

It's funny. I've lived in a lot of countries but I only really truly felt like an outsider in Japan.

[Paul]

Tengu making assumptions about what you think you know and what is actually a fact is a mother-mexter.


One other thing, here is a friendly warning for you, attack a persons opinion all you want but not the person.

Do not cross that line if you want to continue participating here.

[TENGU]

So you took offense at being labeled a gaijin? It is after all an offensive exclusionary/discriminatory term. No matter how it is dressed up and explained away the fact remains that it is what it is, a term to make it clear that it is not Japanese.

To rip a bit of your previously reply

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if this were really true then the persons being referred to in any slur should be able to use it freely, that rarely happens, blanket codes of conduct are enforced, like on this site. Simply because it is a site related to Japan, the term Jap must not be used as some people might find it offensive, even people who carry no guilt or shame, through their ancestry, in relation to the term are barred from using it.


I find it ridiculously hypocritical that "gaijin" is excepted from the list, to add insult to injury the people who decide what is acceptable are teachers. I can't imagine for a moment teaching, or even allowing a student to use a term that basically divides the world into 2 groups, it's beyond reproach, at least the racial slurs contain the courtesy of some geographic information, but "gaijin" is just "not one of us".


It's thoroughly laughable that I can't refer to myself as honky, cracker, gwailo, ad infinitum even though my race is the one targeted by the slur yet I can slur the whole non-Japanese world with gaijin.

Gaijin - hypocrisy at it's finest.

[TENGU]

Tengu making assumptions about what you think you know and what is actually a fact is a mother-mexter.


One other thing, here is a friendly warning for you, attack a persons opinion all you want but not the person.

Do not cross that line if you want to continue participating here.

would you like to make such comments via PM please, let's keep the thread on topic.

while I have your attention, could you explain why the discriminatory term "gaijin" is permissible but others such as in the poll are not.


Thanks.

[Paul]

would you like to make such comments via PM please, let's keep the thread on topic.

You got the friendly warning, let's leave it at that.

[TENGU]

Still why is "gaijin" permissible when other racial slurs are not?

[Paul]

Still why is "gaijin" permissible when other racial slurs are not?

If you know anything about the history of Japan you would also know that the term was first used by Japanese towards Japanese as well to describe someone that was not of their area.

Also the term "gaijin"is not racist per say either as it refers to all foreigners, yes I know that it mostly refers to and is used in reference to non-Asian foreigners but even Chinese and in some cases Koreans are also called "gaijin"as well.

Next the word gaijin as you should also know is not universally used either. You should have included it when you wrote the OP. If you want I can go back and include it as well.

The manner in which the word is used can be taken any number of different ways, it is not always used derogatorily either. Just as the word immigrant had or to some still has a negative connotation in the US it doesnt always make it a racist slur either.

It is just a word and how you choose to receive it when used towards you is the point. If you allow it to bother you it will no matter how much anyone tells you otherwise. It is an issue about education as well. And in time hopefully it's use will change. But it will be replaced like it or not with something else, like gaikokujin. Which really isnt that different either.

[TENGU]

I expected better than the same hackneyed sympathizer stance from you Paul.

I am well aware of the etymology of the word and what it signifies.

Also the term "gaijin"is not racist per say either as it refers to all foreigners

how can one respond to this? it defies reason.

Next the word gaijin as you should also know is not universally used either.

...it is in Japan, that's where we are and that's what matters right? You edited Jap because someone might find it offensive in Japan yet you let "gaijin" stand.

The manner in which the word is used can be taken any number of different ways

...as can any of those listed above.


As we both know "gaijin" is a politically incorrect term, recognised as being so from government to media, regardless of how it is taken by the listener the fact remains it is not p.c, is offensive to some and thus should be treated as such, not given exception with some nihonjinron etymology and wishy washy excuses. The term has never had a neutral connotation, it has always been discriminatory to show a lack of belonging.　 How about have your filter change "gaijin" to "not born native Japanese"

[Paul]

...it is in Japan, that's where we are and that's what matters right? You edited Jap because someone might find it offensive in Japan yet you let "gaijin" stand.

Finally we get to the heart of your problem here. Took you long enough but I am glad you quit beating around the bush here and wrote this.

Gaijin is not offensive to all gaijin. Once a person here finally understands the manner in which the word is used by the majority it seems of Japanese people it no longer is a problem. And being PC has nothing to do with it either. Show me where the word "jap" has any sort of positive connotation? Like I wrote previously here, I believe your use of the word came from being too lazy to type the entire word out rather that overtly show any more arrogance or dislike for things here than you usually do.

I am surprised that you stay seeing as how jaded your views are about life here are. There is no big mystery to Japan or it's people. This country is no different than any of the countless numbers of other countries and cultures that I have visited and experienced throughout my life.

I can safely say I've been entwined in twice as many cultures as you ever will.

Assumptions Tengu, assumptions......


Tell us all in your ever seemingly endless wisdom here Tengu what the difference is between the words gaijin and gaikokujin.

[TENGU]

Once a person here finally understands the manner in which the word is used by the majority it seems of Japanese people it no longer is a problem.

And here is the crux of the issue, your reliance on cultural relativism to validate a weak argument. Once you understand that the majority of Japanese people see themselves as being intrinsically different from other nationals, you can see how, from their perspective, separating the world into two groups is the only natural progression and must be reinforced in as many ways as possible. So if one takes on board the Japanese mentality all is well. Very nice.

Do you refer to your own children as half-gaijin? Do you refer to non Japanese as gaijin when dealing with students? Do you reinforce the idea of gaijin in your classes? I suspect you don't.

Tell us all in your ever seemingly endless wisdom here Tengu what the difference is between the words gaijin and gaikokujin.

why koku of course.




btw. it's per se ね

[TENGU]

I can safely say I've been entwined in twice as many cultures as you ever will.

Assumptions Tengu, assumptions......

what assumptions are you making about entwined?

[TENGU]

Enjoy

[Paul]

Once a person here finally understands the manner in which the word is used by the majority it seems of Japanese people it no longer is a problem.

And here is the crux of the issue, your reliance on cultural relativism to validate a weak argument. Once you understand that the majority of Japanese people see themselves as being intrinsically different from other nationals, you can see how, from their perspective, separating the world into two groups is the only natural progression and must be reinforced in as many ways as possible. So if one takes on board the Japanese mentality all is well. Very nice.

Do you refer to your own children as half-gaijin? Do you refer to non Japanese as gaijin when dealing with students? Do you reinforce the idea of gaijin in your classes? I suspect you don't.

Tell us all in your ever seemingly endless wisdom here Tengu what the difference is between the words gaijin and gaikokujin.

why koku of course.




btw. it's per se ね

If you have a problem with gaijin then you should by association also have a problem with gaikokujin as well. Both refer to someone as being an outsider and not one from within. Just because it is considered to be PC in the media doesnt change the idea or thought that the person(s) being referred to is someone not from within or not from Japan.

Essentially they are the same, it is just semantics.

your reliance on cultural relativism to validate a weak argument.

No not at all, I choose to ignore it. I choose not to make it a problem. I choose not to let "words" like that annoy me because I DO understand how and where they come from and that in time this country will as well adapt and change as well.
Like I wrote before somewhere here, ignorance is not just limited to Japanese people and can be found the world over. I dont fight those battles either.

I pick and choose battles that I KNOW I can have some influence over and in many cases win as well.

This is a battle that a few "gaijin" here in Japan take offense at. That is their choice, let them have at it. It does nothing to improve my situation nor does anything to make my situation any worse either.

I dont care how people who do not know me look at me nor what words they choose to call me by.

You call me arrogant, and I am roflmao at that one.

[TENGU]

Essentially they are the same, it is just semantics.

why bother with anything Paul, if it's "just semantics".


Don't buy into that cheap epithet, it's not just semantics, words matter, you as a teacher of language should understand that.

[Paul]

Essentially they are the same, it is just semantics.

why bother with anything Paul, if it's "just semantics".


Don't buy into that cheap epithet, it's not just semantics, words matter, you as a teacher of language should understand that.

Just as you choose to pick and choose what to reply to in a post.

So you dont buy into it. That is your problem not mine.

Read what I wrote about picking and choosing which battles I choose to fight. If you want to take on the entire world or the roughly 125 million Japanese be my guest but you will only be leading a parade of one.

[TENGU]

Read what I wrote about picking and choosing which battles I choose to fight. If you want to take on the entire world or the roughly 125 million Japanese be my guest but you will only be leading a parade of one.

Hmm, I think you finished yourself off with the "just semantics".

It's a racist term which you obviously have become socialized to accept.